When I press delete, I mean DELETE!!

Discussion in 'Security Software' started by myself-66, Jan 9, 2006.

  1. myself-66

    myself-66 Guest

    It has come to my attention that when I press delete to remove financial
    information after purchasing something online, it is not actually deleted and
    can be recovered using various maintanence apps or other such software. Why
    would you build a button that is supposed to dispose of such documents, just
    like a cheap office paper shredder would do (and permanently at that), but
    actually just hides them in places which I am not aware of and cannot easily
    access, so that some scamming bastard can just steal them later?????
    You guys are smart enough to build such amazing devices as these computers
    in the first place, HOW on earth would you FAIL to notice this???
    myself-66, Jan 9, 2006
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  2. myself-66

    Ted Zieglar Guest

    Do you know that you have posted in a public newsgroup? Do you know what a
    public newsgroup is? I'll clue you in: It's a giant public bulletin board in
    cyberspace, where anyone can post a message and anyone can read the

    You seem to have a problem with a web site or perhaps some software program
    that you've used. To get an answer to your question, you would be better off
    to contact the web site directly, or ask the software program's technical
    support group.

    A tip: Whomever you decide to contact, you're more likely to get an answer
    to your question if you are very specific about your request.
    Ted Zieglar, Jan 9, 2006
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  3. myself-66

    Galen Guest

    In myself-66 <> had this to say:

    My reply is at the bottom of your sent message:
    Because if delete actually worked like you think it does it would take
    forever and a day to get anything done and drives would burn out far sooner
    than the manufacturer had hoped. Delete only removes it from the listing in
    the OS. You could/can delete it and write over it a bunch of times with
    random letters/numbers and it should prevent it from being recovered but the
    process is slow and resource intensive. And, of course, if you did delete
    something and wanted to recover it you'd be out of luck and there's a lot of
    people who delete things that they discover they didn't mean to. They'd like
    to be able to recover it. The file, based on magnetic storage, is going to
    remain resident on the storage device until it's been writen over and even
    then sometimes there's "assumption" applications that can be used to recover
    even the missing parts by simply looking at the existing parts and using
    logic to assume what's missing. (You'll need to work for a labratory,
    government agency, or specialty recovery house for such software likely...)

    I have not used this application but you might be interested in something
    like this:


    Galen - MS MVP - Windows (Shell/User & IE)

    "We approached the case, you remember, with an absolutely blank mind,
    which is always an advantage. We had formed no theories. We were simply
    there to observe and to draw inferences from our observations." -
    Sherlock Holmes
    Galen, Jan 9, 2006
  4. myself-66

    . Guest

    "Delete" has worked this way since, oh, 1981 or so. In addition to what this
    fellow wrote, if Delete worked the way you wanted, there would be no such
    thing as an audit trail and no way to track fraud.

    ., Jan 9, 2006
  5. As others have indicated, you are posting to a public forum.
    This is not a likely place for the "you" that your post addresses
    to be seeing what you have said.
    There are many optimizations in computer systems, one type of
    which makes the user's view of things be as expected while under
    the covers something quite different may be happening. When one
    deletes things, from one point of view one is just freeing up resource
    for reuse. After a specific area of the drive has been rewritten some
    number of times the original content does become only very difficultly
    recoverable, if that.
    What you are after is a "secure delete" for which there are third-party
    tools. One may also use the "cipher /w" command to wipe all unused
    space on a specific disk drive.
    Making a file actually not recoverable is a resource intensive process.
    For this reason it is something left to manual invocation.
    Roger Abell [MVP], Jan 9, 2006
  6. myself-66

    Robert Moir Guest

    Also all those people who press delete when they didn't mean to, like pretty
    much all of us at one time or another, would be sad little elves if we never
    saw our data again ever.
    Robert Moir, Jan 9, 2006
  7. myself-66

    Mark Randall Guest

    Isaac Asimov
    Most people know this (99% of windows users), it appears you only just
    caught on and are somewhat angry you are out of the loop.

    - Mark Randall

    "Those people that think they know everything are a great annoyance to those
    of us who do"
    Mark Randall, Jan 10, 2006
  8. Hundreds of thousands of people delete things that they later wish they
    hadn't. That is why the mechanism is in place. Search in Google for "secure
    delete" and see what you find.



    Richard Urban
    Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User

    Quote from George Ankner:
    If you knew as much as you think you know,
    You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!
    Richard Urban, Jan 10, 2006
  9. Use BCwipe from www.jetico.com or some other similar tool to delete your
    files. It's even cheaper than a cheap office paper shredder.

    You can also enable the EFS file encryption ability that comes free with
    Windows. Be sure you back up your encryption key if you do so.

    Note that it is unlikely someone would undelete your documents unless they
    stole your computer or had unrestricted physical access to it to recover
    those documents. Unless you're a celebrity or work at a well known
    business, most attackers aren't going to care what's on your computer.
    Credit cards are most often stolen from a brick and mortar store or
    restaurant, or off of an Internet server that privides financial processing
    services for credit card companies, not from home computers.
    karl levinson, mvp, Jan 11, 2006
  10. <preens happily at being included in this group of smart people who build

    You could always stop using a computer. Of course, you will have a hard time
    getting, say, your *bank* to stop using computers...nor even that nice
    little Italian restaurant around the corner to whom you happily gave over
    your credit card last week to pay for dinner.

    Do some reading on how computers work, and perhaps you will set your mind at
    ease to a degree.
    Lanwench [MVP - Exchange], Jan 12, 2006
  11. myself-66

    coal_brona Guest


    At lest it is always possible to verify, how securely the info is
    erased using data recovery tools, the most powerful is Active@
    Undelete, it gives maximum chances to restore, it even was able to
    bring back data I considered long ago lost.

    coal_brona, Jan 18, 2006
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