security@home

Discussion in 'Virus Information' started by RJK, Nov 8, 2006.

  1. RJK

    RJK Guest

    http://home20.inet.tele.dk/b_nice/index.htm
    This web-site contains lots of contradictions !
    ....and it would take a lot of TIME to work through some of the things he
    suggests - lots of which which could also cripple your PC.

    It's actually quite cunning, the web site itself is sort of succinct but, at
    almost every turn leads you off to somewhere, (where if you don't have lots
    of PC / OS and application software and/or Internet experience), you could
    end up getting your PC in a real mess.

    He criticizes "internet security" applications, and the text on his site
    could be misunderstood as giving advice to not use an internet security
    application at all ! ...then he hyperlinks you off to a site where you
    could end up taking advice to switch off XP services that you may need, by
    taking losts of time to manually work through XP services.

    Most home users don't implement common sense on the internet and SIMPLY DO
    NOT want to know what a visual basic script, ActiveX control, Java Applet
    actually is, and would rather trust their defenses to applications such as
    Zone Alarm Internet Security Suite.

    I wonder if the http://www.argos.co.uk web site loads and runs on B. Nice's
    PC ? :)

    regards, Richard

    ....NG Flame certainly gets the adrenalin flowing !
     
    RJK, Nov 8, 2006
    #1
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  2. RJK

    B. Nice Guest

    Why don't you just tell us right away which security company you
    represent so we know who we are dealing with.

    /B. Nice
     
    B. Nice, Nov 9, 2006
    #2
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  3. RJK

    Bruce Hagen Guest

    Did you have an Outlook Express question, or did you just decide to include
    this newsgroup in your crosspost?
     
    Bruce Hagen, Nov 9, 2006
    #3
  4. RJK

    RJK Guest

    I don't represent any company !
    ....I do help lots of people, and friends, with messes they've got themsleves
    into, from and on the internet, and if I thought for a moment that they
    could, or would at least spend some time and try to understand some of the
    basic internet security principles and good practices outlined on your site,
    I would direct them there !
    ....and I would direct them to
    http://www.mvps.org/winhelp2002/hosts.htm
    ....and lots of other reputable places but, along with scripts, ActiveX, XP
    Java and Sun Java runtime, email attachments etc., correct use of IE
    internet zones and other IE security settings ... I could go on and on
    ......they simply don't want to know about the hosts file, or anything else !
    They seem happier to be just furious with their PC and browser software
    because the one or two websites they've tried to visit won't correctly load,
    run, or display in their IE browser window. ...so they yank down their IE6
    internet surity zone setting until it does load etc.
    ....then there's the, (in my view), badly designed websites where the URL
    changes every time one clicks a link to progress into the same site ...and
    then there's the IE https window that opens from the "same" website that's
    configured to be a new window with no address slot, and nothing in the title
    bar and no clue, (other than right-clicking for properties), for the user,
    (who can't remember or even grasp the concept of a right-click), that the
    URL has yet again changed to one that's not yet been added into IE's trusted
    sites zone and - hence an empty ssl window with "Done" on that Windows'
    status bar !

    My contention is simply that there are several internet security suite
    applications that do quite well looking after lots of security aspects for
    novice and/or stubborn users ! The reference on your web-site, to being
    "pestered" with firewall alerts is not really fair - and is a little
    misleading, in that a freshly installed firewall often has to be trained up,
    and in a short time will not bother the user quite so much. Here of course
    we could get into the realms of novice users setting rules incorrectly e.g.
    for outbound connections because he or she doesn't recognise exactly what's
    trying to get out, ...or in !
    ....but, there you go - I've said my piece again :)

    If I was attempting to make a living from "internet security" then I suppose
    I can see where you're "coming from" on your site. Lots of good advice
    that's beyond the understanding of most "ordinary users," - mainly due to
    individual's time restraints, plus a good sprinkling of criticism aimed at
    internet security appplications. Not that I was intending to imply that you
    make a living from internet security advice - this was an impression I got
    after looking around your web-site.

    regards, Richard
     
    RJK, Nov 9, 2006
    #4
  5. RJK

    RJK Guest

    ....possibly clicked on a wrong NG, ...or could there have been a tenuous
    link, in my mind - at the time, to OE via aspects of security ? ! :)

    regards, Richard
     
    RJK, Nov 9, 2006
    #5
  6. RJK

    B. Nice Guest

    They don't need to know. All they need to do to reach a reasonable
    level of surfing security is to install a robust browser that is build
    for dealing with insecure networks like the internet and to be able to
    destinguish between sites they trust and sites they don't. If they
    can't do something as simple as that, they are better off pulling the
    plug.

    But of course, if people choose to stay ignorant, and therefore will
    get repeatedly burned, that's their choice. I offer some groundrules
    (that actually work) for those interrested - nothing else. People are
    free to take my advice and free to ignore it and look for advice at
    one of the gazillion other sites available. I really don't care.

    The only thing I do care about is the overselling nonsense, especially
    concerning features like "outbound control" and "making you invisible
    on the internet", that many "firewall software companies" can get away
    with on their web-sites.
    As long as people don't understand that IE is a security threat by
    design there is'nt that much to do.
    I see marketing is doing a great job.
    Which a novice of course is'nt able to do properly anyway.

    And what is your opinion about all the nonsense warnings about
    "attacks" that your "personal firewall" has hindered? A good firewall
    is there to protect you. Not to brag about stopping "attacks" that
    mostly are'nt real attacks anyway. It should just protect you and shut
    up.

    The only time it seems to keep quiet is when malware is bypassing it.
    At the time you really need it to speak up, it won't.
    True malware does'nt care about your security suites.

    /B. Nice
     
    B. Nice, Nov 9, 2006
    #6
  7. RJK

    Ted Zieglar Guest

    "The only thing I do care about is the overselling nonsense..."

    I don't see a problem with that, so long as you include a disclaimer:
    ATTENTION - THIS IS ONLY MY OPINION.

    BTW, I found a few newsgroups that you forgot to cross-post to.
     
    Ted Zieglar, Nov 9, 2006
    #7
  8. RJK

    B. Nice Guest

    Tell that to RJK
     
    B. Nice, Nov 9, 2006
    #8
  9. RJK

    RJK Guest

     
    RJK, Nov 9, 2006
    #9
  10. RJK

    RJK Guest

    ...I think I meant to select 2 NG.s using Ctrl+left-click but, held Shift and
    selected a range of my subscribed NG's ..by the look of it...
    ....well that's my theory !

    regards, Richard
     
    RJK, Nov 9, 2006
    #10
  11. RJK

    Jody Guest

    This post is not in the right place, but I tried to post a NEW
    question(pop-upblocker OK) Perhaps I should just stop reading and read the
    rules. But I need to ask this because Microsoft never answered me after
    multiple attempts and I felt it was relevant at least at a forum that is
    Microsoft related.
    I am running XP SP2 Home and would like to know why I am getting updates for
    Office and other administrative topics? I have since changed my setting to
    off for Updates but I check Windows Update every other day. I am one of
    those "newbies". trying to find answers to my own questions but after going
    from one site to another, I just quit. I have all the "Dummy" books and I
    tried to find out what NFTS meant and it isn't in any glossery I was checking
    and I wrote this as an example to what I have been going thru to find the
    info I need. I get quite frustrated and just quit. Any suggestions would be
    helpful. I came here because I, obviously, have Windows Defender and this
    forum was described as a place that perhaps I might find out answers but
    unfortunately I will end this reply more confused. By the way I went to
    argos.co and is there something I missed? I am now going to Richard's other
    site he mentioned and maybe I will find some relevant info. And yes I would
    like to know what a frigging script is and what it does but trying to find
    the answer on Microsoft.com drove me crazy-er. I have been to other forums
    so I am not a complete novice and now I running around in circles and driving
    anyone who might read this crazy!
    Thank you and I really just need some direction on how to find answers to
    questions.
    Jody
     
    Jody, Nov 14, 2006
    #11
  12. RJK

    Phil Weldon Guest

    'Jody' wrote, in part:
    | This post is not in the right place, but I tried to post a NEW
    | question(pop-upblocker OK)
    _____

    Skimmed over once lightly, but not read.

    Your post is so long any question you might have is hidden. Try a new post
    that starts a new thread. Make sure the subject line includes the question
    and that the question is ALSO included in the body of the post. Do not
    include irrelevant information. Post only to the most relevant newsgroups.
    More than two or three crossposts are rarely necessary.
    Complaints and venting will reduce the number of helpful replies.

    Phil Weldon

    | This post is not in the right place, but I tried to post a NEW
    | question(pop-upblocker OK) Perhaps I should just stop reading and read the
    | rules. But I need to ask this because Microsoft never answered me after
    | multiple attempts and I felt it was relevant at least at a forum that is
    | Microsoft related.
    | I am running XP SP2 Home and would like to know why I am getting updates
    for
    | Office and other administrative topics? I have since changed my setting
    to
    | off for Updates but I check Windows Update every other day. I am one of
    | those "newbies". trying to find answers to my own questions but after
    going
    | from one site to another, I just quit. I have all the "Dummy" books and I
    | tried to find out what NFTS meant and it isn't in any glossery I was
    checking
    | and I wrote this as an example to what I have been going thru to find the
    | info I need. I get quite frustrated and just quit. Any suggestions would
    be
    | helpful. I came here because I, obviously, have Windows Defender and this
    | forum was described as a place that perhaps I might find out answers but
    | unfortunately I will end this reply more confused. By the way I went to
    | argos.co and is there something I missed? I am now going to Richard's
    other
    | site he mentioned and maybe I will find some relevant info. And yes I
    would
    | like to know what a frigging script is and what it does but trying to find
    | the answer on Microsoft.com drove me crazy-er. I have been to other
    forums
    | so I am not a complete novice and now I running around in circles and
    driving
    | anyone who might read this crazy!
    | Thank you and I really just need some direction on how to find answers to
    | questions.
    | Jody
    |
    |
    |
    | "RJK" wrote:
    |
    | > http://home20.inet.tele.dk/b_nice/index.htm
    | > This web-site contains lots of contradictions !
    | > ....and it would take a lot of TIME to work through some of the things
    he
    | > suggests - lots of which which could also cripple your PC.
    | >
    | > It's actually quite cunning, the web site itself is sort of succinct
    but, at
    | > almost every turn leads you off to somewhere, (where if you don't have
    lots
    | > of PC / OS and application software and/or Internet experience), you
    could
    | > end up getting your PC in a real mess.
    | >
    | > He criticizes "internet security" applications, and the text on his site
    | > could be misunderstood as giving advice to not use an internet security
    | > application at all ! ...then he hyperlinks you off to a site where you
    | > could end up taking advice to switch off XP services that you may need,
    by
    | > taking losts of time to manually work through XP services.
    | >
    | > Most home users don't implement common sense on the internet and SIMPLY
    DO
    | > NOT want to know what a visual basic script, ActiveX control, Java
    Applet
    | > actually is, and would rather trust their defenses to applications such
    as
    | > Zone Alarm Internet Security Suite.
    | >
    | > I wonder if the http://www.argos.co.uk web site loads and runs on B.
    Nice's
    | > PC ? :)
    | >
    | > regards, Richard
    | >
    | > ....NG Flame certainly gets the adrenalin flowing !
    | >
    | >
     
    Phil Weldon, Nov 14, 2006
    #12
  13. RJK

    Ted Zieglar Guest

    What, exactly, is your question for the newsgroup? We invite you to be
    concise.

    We also invite you to pick one newsgroup for your post, instead of
    cross-posting all over the place.
     
    Ted Zieglar, Nov 14, 2006
    #13
  14. RJK

    RJK Guest

    It's usually me that skims through posts, then a few minutes later -
    re-reads them and has to make corrections !
    My comments are inline - (inserted into your post below)
    .....if you can find your post again that is ! :)

    regards, Richard


    ....There is an inference here that you appear to think that by posting your
    message here that Microsoft will answer your problems. This is not the
    case - the MVP's (Microsoft Valued Profesionals) and other people who
    respond and use these MS NG's are volunteers.
    Don't "Quit," use Google Search Engine, it's VERY good - and keep reading
    ! :)
    http://www.google.com ...e.g. NTFS (new technologies file system) will
    give you thousands of hits !
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NTFS

    Any suggestions would be
    Windows Defender, as you're probably already aware is an anti-malware
    program. It's quite well behaved and I've not had problems running it
    alongside Grisofts' Ewido (now Anti-Spyware), and other anti-spyware
    applications. In my opinion it should not be considered a comprehensive
    anti-spyware program / real-time scanner. A good one is here at
    http://www.grisoft.com

    By the way I went to
    If http://www.argos.co.uk displays and works correctly in your web browser
    window - then ok ...perhaps ! I use Argos as an example because it's
    built using XP Javascript. If Active Scripting is switched off in the IE
    Security Zone that's being applied to this web site, as it loads in your web
    browser window, it will not correctly load and display. It's not wise to
    have Active scripting enabled in the Internet zone, in case you stumble into
    a nasty web site that's built to damage your PC / invade your privacy etc. -
    have it enabled in the Trusted Sites zone and manually add web addresses,
    (that you fully trust will NOT do nasty things to your PC), into the Trusted
    Sites list so that their "scripts" (or 'code,' if you prefer, that the web
    site is built with), can run properly.

    I am now going to Richard's other
    Google !

    I have been to other forums
    http://www.mvps.org/winhelp2002/hosts.htm

    regards, Richard
     
    RJK, Nov 14, 2006
    #14

  15. Your post is confusing, but I take it your question is: "why I am getting
    updates for
    Office and other administrative topics?"

    Is Office installed?
    What other administrative topics?

    Updates for Windows Defender signatures are distributed through Windows
    Updates.

    If you have chosen Microsoft Updates on the Windows Updates sites you will
    get updates for Microsoft Office programs you have installed plus, perhaps,
    other Microsoft programs.

    I guess your long list of newsgroups is due to replying to RJK's post.

    If you have trouble finding replies there's nothing we can do about it as
    long as you use that terrible Web interface instead of Outlook Express.
    Especially since you do not include an email address and apparently don't
    check the Web interface' box to be notified of replies to your post.
     
    Frank Saunders, MS-MVP OE/WM, Nov 14, 2006
    #15
  16. RJK

    Jody Guest

    not only did I give up, I went to Firefox and never looked back. I still check every couple of weeks and install the critical ones. I know this is more than you wanted to know, but I bet I am no the only one out there who does not use IE anymore.
    I still don't understand your reference to the "interface" I was using and
    something about Outlook Express. What is that all about? And just to be
    sure I went to my preferences page and made sure my e-mail address was there
    and that I could be contacted, And why would I e-mail you and not go thru
    the forum? It was those inferences I did not understand nor like and is the
    reason I haven't been back. But I didn't want to just quit coming here, you
    guys just completely and (I know this is easy to do!) going in circles.
    I received notification, obviously, of replies, so what are you talking about?
    Thanks for the answers and help that I did get - my 'ol brain is suffering
    with CSR.
    Jody
     
    Jody, Jan 2, 2007
    #16
  17. RJK

    Rock Guest

    It's hard to understand your reply. You are rambling, almost like a stream
    of consciousness mind dump. I was not part of the original thread, but I
    have tried to read and understand both your original post and your reply.
    Neither one makes much sense.

    It is normal procedure to quote at least a part, if not all, of the message
    to which one replies. This is actually a newsgroup, not a forum. Many
    people use a newsreader to access it and only download the most recent
    messages so the need to quote the previous message is imperative to keep an
    understanding of the thread.

    As to your not understanding the reference to the interface and outlook
    express, you are accessing this newsgroup using the web access or interface.
    That interface is just plain lousy. As I stated before this actually is
    Usenet newsgroup. You would be much better off using a newsreader to access
    it. XP comes with Outlook Express which can be set up for newsgroup access.

    Here is a link with info on how to setup Outlook Express for newsgroup
    access:
    http://www.michaelstevenstech.com/outlookexpressnewreader.htm

    As to your problem with updates, I don't know what you were doing, but
    updates don't just automatically install themselves. You have to tell them
    to install. So you did something. Confusion seems to be rampant in your
    computing existence. Good luck to you.

    Oh, and here are some links with some good info on how to make a good
    newsgroup post. To start with, composing the message with good grammar,
    spelling, punctuation and capitalization helps loads. Break up paragraphs -
    no more than 5 or 6 lines maximum. One thought per paragraph. Include
    relevant details, leave out extraneous ramblings. One issue per post.

    Making Good Newsgroup Posts

    http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
    http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
     
    Rock, Jan 3, 2007
    #17
  18. RJK

    Max Wachtel Guest

    You need to check only once a month. MS issues updates on the second
    Tuesday of each month.
    Using a Newsreader (Thunderbird or Outlook Express have one) instead of
    firefox makes reading the newsgroups easier.
    That was not directed specifically towards you. This is not a forum-it
    is USENET.

    It was those inferences I did not understand nor like and is the
    Back to your question-
    Microsoft Update is different than Windows Update.
    WU checks windows only.
    MU checks windows and other Microsoft products like OfficeXP.

    --
    Playing Nice on Usenet:
    http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/unice.htm#xpost
    My Pages:
    Virus Removal Instructions
    http://home.neo.rr.com/manna4u/
    Keeping Windows Clean
    http://home.neo.rr.com/manna4u/keepingclean.html
    Windows Help and Tools
    http://home.neo.rr.com/manna4u/tools.html
    Change nomail.afraid.org to gmail.com to reply.
    nomail.afraid.org is setup specifically for use in USENET
    Feel free to use it yourself.
     
    Max Wachtel, Jan 3, 2007
    #18
  19. RJK

    Jody Guest

    " hard to understand your reply. You are rambling, almost like a stream
    Jody
    THE END GO HURT SOMEONE ELSE OH DON'T E-MAIL ME AS YOU ORDERED ME NOT TO DO
    TO YOU WHO THE HELL ARE YOU ANYWAY but don't waste my time just please be
    someone who helps a new person all you did was hurt me
     
    Jody, Jan 3, 2007
    #19
  20. RJK

    William Guest

    OK. I don't know if you're still there, but seriously, it's not that
    important. People get flamed in these NGs all the time, I myself
    included (that's why there's something called a killfile, right Gotchalks
    ;-) ). Anyway, just try to understand that a lot of these newsgroups
    aren't moderated. There is no central server, so there isn't really a
    way to ban someone, at least not without them finding another way in
    anyway, so free speech runs ramped here, and the knife of free speech
    cuts both ways. Anyway, I hope you find whatever help you're looking
    for, but seriously, try not to let little pixilated images that form
    words from someone you've never met in real life upset or anger you, or
    you'll just waste precious time and energy trying to recover/retaliate.

    Regards,

    Will
     
    William, Jan 3, 2007
    #20
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