Discussion in 'Virus Information' started by =?Utf-8?B?a2VubmV3aWNrcm9ja2VyZ3V5?=, Oct 7, 2006.

  1. =?Utf-8?B?a2VubmV3aWNrcm9ja2VyZ3V5?=

    LS \(V\) Guest

    Read again sissy;
    I didn't say "PC's",
    I said "(I been at it since 1971when joec148 was peeing in pampers). :)
    You being 60 has nothing to do with the above quote!
    "I been at it since 1971when joec148 was peeing in pampers"
    I am sorry if I hit a nerve. Maybe you still are in Pampers!

    1971 Computer Chronology

    a.. At Intel, a second fabrication run of 4004 processors is made. This
    time, the processors work with only minor errors. [1038.146]
    a.. At Intel, a third fabrication run of 4004 processors is made, with
    corrected masks. [1038.146]
    a.. Intel ships sample calculator chip sets to Busicom, each set
    consisting of four 4001 ROM chips, two 4002 RAM chips, two 4003 I/O chips,
    and one 4004 CPU. [1038.146] (February [556.10])
    (month unknown)
    a.. Intel decides to market the 4000 family. [1038.148]
    b.. Intel renegotiates its contract with Busicom, gaining Intel the
    right to market the 4004 microprocessor openly in non-calculator
    applications. Intel returns US$60,000 to Busicom in exchange for product
    rights to the 4004 processor. [266.14] [606.18] [900] [1038.148]
    c.. IBM introduces the 23FD floppy disk drive. It uses an 8-inch floppy
    plastic disk, called a "memory disk", coated with iron oxide on one side.
    The drive can only read the disks. [202.170] [971.F9] [1089.392] [1280.41]
    (1965 [363.46]) (1970 [1112.142])
    d.. Texas Instruments develops the first microcomputer-on-a-chip,
    containing over 15,000 transistors. [714] [1280.41]
    a.. Texas Instruments runs an advertisement in Electronics magazine,
    showing a "CPU on a Chip" that it developed for Computer Terminal's
    Datapoint 2200 terminal. (However, the chip is never marketed due to
    unresolved problems in operation.) [1038.148]
    b.. Gary Boone, of Texas Instruments, files a patent application
    relating to a single-chip computer. [590.5]
    (month unknown)
    a.. 3M introduces a 1/4-inch tape drive and cartridge, the first such
    system practical for desktop computer use. Tape storage capacity is 30 MB.
    b.. The National Radio Institute introduces the first computer kit, for
    US$503. [208.66]
    c.. John Blankenbaker introduces the Kenbak-1 computer, for US$750. It
    uses a 1 kB MOS memory made by Intel. The computer does not use a
    microprocessor, but incorporates discrete logic chips and shift registers.
    (About 40 units are sold by 1973.) [208.66] [1112.146] [1299.65] (256 bytes
    RAM [2063.94])
    d.. Niklaus Wirth invents the Pascal programming language. (Pascal was
    developed as a teaching language, but becomes a popular general-use
    programming language. ) [132] [1112.142] (1969 [447.385])
    e.. Wang Laboratories introduces the Wang 1200 word processor system.
    (Though not a general purpose computer system, dedicated word processing
    systems such as this became early targets of desktop computer systems.)
    f.. Intel introduces the 1101 chip, a 256-bit programmable memory, and
    the 1701 chip, a 256-byte erasable read-only memory (EROM). [208.70]
    g.. Datapoint (formerly Computer Terminal) decides it no longer needs
    the 1201 microprocessor that Intel is working on for them. Datapoint agrees
    to let Intel use its architecture in exchange for canceling the development
    charges. (This chip becomes the Intel 8008 processor.) [1038.148]
    a.. The newly developed device, the EPROM, is integrated with the 4004
    to enhance development cycles of microprocessor products. [778]
    (month unknown)
    a.. Steve Wozniak and Bill Fernandez build a computer with lights and
    switches, mostly from chips rejected by local semiconductor companies. They
    call it the Cream Soda Computer, as they drank Cragmont cream soda while
    they worked. [266.205] [548.414] (fall 1970 [930.26])
    a.. In major trade publications including Electronic News, Intel
    officially introduces the MCS-4 (Microcomputer System 4-bit) microcomputer
    system. It is comprised of the 4001 ROM chip, 4002 RAM chip, 4003 shift
    register chip, and the 4004 microprocessor. Clock speed of the CPU is 108
    kHz. Performance is 60,000 operations per second. It uses 2300 transistors,
    based on 10-micron technology. It can address 4 kB memory via a 4-bit bus.
    Initial price is US$200. Documentation manuals were written by Adam Osborne.
    The die for the chip measures 3x4 mm. [9] [62] [176.74] [202.165] [266.14]
    [296] [393.6] [556.11] [900] [953.28] [1254.78] [1280.41] (108 kHz
    [1233.135]) (1972 [339.86])
    LS \(V\), Oct 13, 2006
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  2. =?Utf-8?B?a2VubmV3aWNrcm9ja2VyZ3V5?=

    antioch Guest

    Reply to whom?
    Learn to post properly or Foxtrot Oscar you prat
    antioch, Oct 13, 2006
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  3. =?Utf-8?B?a2VubmV3aWNrcm9ja2VyZ3V5?=

    Tom Willett Guest

    Good riddance.

    "Joec148" <jchiacchio> wrote in message
    |I am no longer taking part in this group since it looks like we have a few
    | babies who will not admit there wrong so do not reply to this I am out of
    | here and having a long talk whit my MS rep. By the way what kind of PC was
    | around in 71
    | "
    Tom Willett, Oct 13, 2006
  4. =?Utf-8?B?a2VubmV3aWNrcm9ja2VyZ3V5?=

    RJK Guest

    Joec148 probably does not know what a "zero-fill" is :)

    regards, Richard
    RJK, Oct 13, 2006
  5. =?Utf-8?B?a2VubmV3aWNrcm9ja2VyZ3V5?=

    RJK Guest

    I never stooped to a Commodore, ...though I did own one of the more classier
    ZX spectrums - the one with the proper keyboard - not the one with the
    rubber keys ! :)

    regards, Richard
    RJK, Oct 13, 2006
  6. =?Utf-8?B?a2VubmV3aWNrcm9ja2VyZ3V5?=

    RJK Guest

    I can beat you all :-
    I had a Sinclair ZX Spectrum (with proper keyboard - the deluxe model)
    Then I had an Amstrad 1512 with the extra plug in memory memory to give me
    640k !! / high memory area... (and a horrid grainy CGA monitor)....
    ....oh how I used to love Quarterdeck Expanded Memory Manager for optimally
    arranging everything that was squished into the HMA :)
    ....then an Amstrad 1640 with a VGA monitor ! ...both had a 8086 8mhz cpu's
    ....and I eventually bought a 10mb Seagate hd on a ISA card ! ...I wish I'd
    bought that small island in the South Pacific now, instead of that hard disk
    hd !
    ....and OoooH the time one spent tweaking DOS through it's many versions !
    ....Then a few weeks later (just kidding), an 80286 10mhz and then a 16mhz,
    then a 20mhz ....with 16mb's of RAM ...30 pin SIMMS I think !
    ....80386 8/16/33/40 mhz cpu's I think, ...soldered to the motherboard, ..and
    I can remember buying floating point processor chips to plug into the
    floating point processor socket on those motherboards, so that DOS based
    spreadsheet programs like SuperCalc were usable !
    80486's ...80486 DX/2 66mhz etc. and several DX/2's after that

    Fortunately I never bought the first Celeron that had NO L2? cache, and was
    almost unusable !
    ....I wonder happened to all those old boards ...where did that P100 get to I
    wonder ?

    ....atm I'm using an antique Socket A - AMD XP2600 1.917ghz 512mb L2 cache /
    768mb pc2700 / 166mhz/ddr333 ...and I think I want my Amstrad 1640 back !

    regards, Richard :)

    RJK, Oct 14, 2006
  7. From: "Emily" <>

    | So that means this very newsgroup can NOT do much in helping people with
    | their malware problems if all we could do is suggest scanners for them to
    | use.
    | Looking at a hijackthis log would give us all the details of the problem and
    | we would know then the right tool to use instead of suggesting scanners that
    | will not fix their problem.
    | We might as well save them the time and trouble of installing unnecessary
    | programs and just point them straight to those forums. Unless of course the
    | problem is very obvious and we know the exact scanner that fixes the problem.

    I am putting the following in this thread for ALL readers !

    There is now a nastry Trojan called "Downloader.agent.awf" and is making HIJack This logs
    even LESS effective as ever.

    This Trojan is REPLACING legitimate files with the same named file but is infact the Trojan.
    From a HJT analysis POV you would NOT know the difference between the legitimate file and
    the replacement file. You need to comapre the file sizes and/or file CheckSum values.

    Here is an example...
    One knows that this would be a Logitech Mouse software driver...
    C:\Program Files\Logitech\MouseWare\system\EM_EXEC.EXE

    However, this Trojan is replacing EM_EXEC.EXE with a Trojan. A HJT log will NOT show this
    fact and ONLY an anti virus scanner will detect and remove the malware.

    At this time I am NOT sure of the validity of the statement that the Trojan creates a backup
    of the legitimate file prior to replacing it with the Trojan file.
    David H. Lipman, Oct 14, 2006
    cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user), Oct 15, 2006
  9. Define "data".

    Explain how someone without the skills to manage active malware will
    have the skills to ensure the "data backup" is malware-free.

    In fact, explain how you are so sure that someone without the skills
    to manage active malware will have the skills to:
    - locate all required drivers, installation disks and product keys
    - identify and backup all data
    - not only restore, but re-integrate that data
    - know (how) to firewall OSs that predate XP SP2
    - have an av they can install
    - be able to update that av offline
    - have patches they can install offline
    - know to stay offline until fully patched and protected
    - know what "fully patched and protected" means
    It's a bit better than that. You can manually manage integration
    points, and you can use the isolation/downtime period to ensure your
    scanners are more up-to-date than the malware you're after.

    The myth is not that cleaning up is 100%; it is that anything is 100%

    The biosphere is a lot older and more complex than today's infosphere,
    and it is very rare to find anything that isn't infected with
    something. In fact, life may depend on infections of long ago that
    are now integrated into the system, such as mitochondria
    (intracellular organelles that act as "batteries") and plastids
    (intracellular organelles that act as "solar battery chargers").
    Pro IT folks - who stand tallest and speak loudest and with the most
    confidence (certification, recognition, serious wages) live in the
    heaven you describe. All data of consequence is off the "workstation"
    and on a professionally-backed-up server, and no-one cares if the user
    complains about lost settings, preferences, or private apps and data
    they prolly shouldn't have at work anyway.

    Now ask one of these sysadmins if they would be prepared to wipe every
    server and workstation in the business, without checking whether they
    have anything backed up. Ask them also if the most unqualified gofer
    in the workplace can do the rebuilds.

    Yet that is EXACTLY the size of the dice we are expected to roll, when
    these folks tell consumers to "just" wipe and rebuild.

    The most accurate diagnostic instrument
    in medicine is the Retrospectoscope
    cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user), Oct 15, 2006
  10. On Thu, 12 Oct 2006 20:38:25 -0400, "Joec148"
    Certain things in the following text surprise me, in that case.
    It's a single av scanner. How good can it be expected to be?

    Once you avoid the real junk and fakes - of which AVG is not one - the
    difference between the "best" av and AVG is probably smaller than the
    "best" av and the same av that has missed a few updates.
    Close to what?

    I currently use numerous av scanners for cleanup, and formally (i.e.
    from a Bart CDR boot). I do this because I find each will find
    something the others miss. Of these, the one that is most likely to
    catch odd stuff - including malware that riddled ADS attached to
    existing files such as System.ini - is an old (no longer updated)
    AntiVir 6. Even an old Stinger regularly spots bots others have
    missed... so I won't pick a "use this, dump the rest" winner.

    But you can't use multiple av products in resident mode at the same
    time, and certain patterns of entry demand resident protection.

    So, what's the take-home here?
    - av is not a total solution, but the "goalie of last resort"
    - many circumstances (e.g. newness) defeat all av equally
    - so multiple av do not mesh well
    - nevertheless, you can use multiple av on-demand, before use
    - use additional risk managements that mesh better than multiple av
    - if av passes suspect material, don't "open" it anyway
    - once malware is active, av in the infected OS is at a disadvantage
    Serious doubt #1.
    I'm with you there...
    ....and there...
    ....but here's doubt #2. Format doesn't do anything to MBR, and AFAIK
    that doesn't change no matter what version of Format you use. MBR is
    system-level code, not part of the OS, and Format is an OS tool; it
    should therefore have no effect on MBR, by design.
    That just makes doubt #1 stronger in my mind.

    "Why do I keep open buckets of petrol next to all the
    ashtrays in the lounge, when I don't even have a car?"
    cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user), Oct 15, 2006
  11. Ahh!! Another fellow member of the ZX Mafia, the secret cartel who
    dominate the top tier of today's world of IT (not!) <g>

    Yep, I had one too... still have it in a box somewhere. Mine was a
    48k "dead flesh" keyboard from 1984, which was 2 years after it came
    out... I got to know that beast really well, from building hardware to
    writing ROMs for it, before going 286, PICK R83 and DOS 3.3 in '88.
    I've kept a few classic parts, like a genuine IBM XT 4.77HMz
    motherboard with co-processor that's also covered in support chips
    made by AMD (yep, they were there since *those* days). I also have
    belt-driven full-height 360k floppy drives, a full height 10M hard
    drive and my one-time pride; 3 x 80M full-height hard drives.
    The first PCs I built "pro" (as in, business name and VAT invoice)
    were 486DX2s still running Win3.yuk... I'd built PCs since 1989's 286s
    from auction parts, then for pals from the 386 era. I have a book on
    the 386 processor and its assembly language from that time, and their
    speculation on how OSs could properly multitask and manage memory
    didn't appear under an MS wrapper for many years after that.
    Quakers loved it, because it was overclockable and Quake's code was so
    tightly assembled that it stayed within L1 most of the time. But I
    agree, I thought they sucked, and so did the market; Intel had to kill
    it off in well under a year. OTOH subsequent Celerons rocked.

    Reality is that which, when you stop believing
    in it, does not go away (PKD)
    cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user), Oct 15, 2006
  12. =?Utf-8?B?a2VubmV3aWNrcm9ja2VyZ3V5?=

    RJK Guest

    ....well, after casting my eye down through your deliberations - what can I
    say other than agreed ! :)

    ....one point of interest to me always, is your - "identify and backup all
    ....this is one of my Windows and application software pet hates!
    i.e. they all love making their own directories all over the place - hence I
    always use the old ?:\data approach with required data directories within
    it, and of course change all those application default directory locations
    accordingly on machines that I prepare.
    ....then along comes that PC with "My ...lots and lots of users and "my"
    folders all over the place !

    regards, Richard
    RJK, Oct 15, 2006
  13. From: "RJK" <>

    | ...well, after casting my eye down through your deliberations - what can I
    | say other than agreed ! :)
    | ...one point of interest to me always, is your - "identify and backup all
    | data"
    | ...this is one of my Windows and application software pet hates!
    | i.e. they all love making their own directories all over the place - hence I
    | always use the old ?:\data approach with required data directories within
    | it, and of course change all those application default directory locations
    | accordingly on machines that I prepare.
    | ...then along comes that PC with "My ...lots and lots of users and "my"
    | folders all over the place !
    | regards, Richard

    I agree Richard. I have always created my own DATA tree and place all my data files in that
    tree and it exists on a SCSI other than the SCSI drive that runs the OS.

    BTW: All TEMP folders and Browser caches are located on that as well.
    David H. Lipman, Oct 16, 2006
  14. =?Utf-8?B?a2VubmV3aWNrcm9ja2VyZ3V5?=

    Kerry Brown Guest

    And then along comes Vista which enforces this, only allowing programs to
    write to a user's profile or folders with the correct acls, and listen to
    the howls :)

    It will take a long time for all the application developers to get it but in
    the end your approach will be the norm.
    Kerry Brown, Oct 16, 2006
  15. =?Utf-8?B?a2VubmV3aWNrcm9ja2VyZ3V5?=

    Leythos Guest

    Leythos, Oct 17, 2006
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